ANSQERONI just discovered this thread and I'm surprised of how it could be missed. @gregponchak : Very nice ideas there but how could you explain spontaneous actions? Does a spontaneous move represent a newly-created algorithm? Added 2010-06-12 16:17:16. In reply to gregponchak
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theseaoceanwell anything that happens is the only thing that could have happened.
its like;
everything is electrons, or i guess whatever is smaller than them and whatever is smaller than that, so if we could see how they all move and affect each other, we could see what would happen next. we'll probably (hopefully?) never get there because we would need to take into account the universe and all of its parts and maybe some day we'll discover beyond that, but hey if randomness is just complication (and so far we've found explanations for a lot of things we thought were random right?), then maybe we can.
hopefully not, since that kind of counts out free will i guess, but hey. Added 2010-06-11 09:43:15.
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gregponchakSorry for the delay, I've been so busy lately. But yes that makes sense, and you're right that does fail to take into account nano-physics.
I've often wondered about them actually. I've heard that they are random and unpredictable. Does that mean that they are unexplainable to us humans, or that they are completely random? Added 2010-04-24 09:02:44.
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reddoi think the most logical way to think about a "creator" is that its something similar to mathematics.
maybe our real creator is math, because without math nothing could exist.
as soon as we'll live in this universe 2+2 will be 4, and 2+2 was 4 since the first day our universe existed.
so i think your theory is not so wrong.
we could respond to our atavic questions with an algorithm. like our universe started from one algorithm, before the proto-soup, big magma balls, big bangs, ets.
without maths and phisics no big bang would have happened.
but, we've also to consider that, for example, in the nano dimension phisics laws are different from our macro phisics laws.
I hope you understand my thoughts expressed in my crap english. Added 2010-02-23 10:36:58.
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texjerSeems more like mathematics is able to explain parts of things, but not the whole thing. I dont' think it's surprising that plants grow in a mathematical pattern, or rocks chip off in a similar way.
That said, I think we're fairly predictable. Added 2010-02-19 22:29:56.
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gregponchakI'm not even 100% sure what I believe on this matter, I'm simply proposing this theory.
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Every day we are discovering more and more that the universe, and everything in it, is guided by mathematical algorithms. On a basic level, we all learn simple physics equations to figure out how fast objects will fall, what the friction between two objects is, etc., but it is much more advanced and mysterious than that. For example, the way plants grow can now be predicted (or reverse-engineered) by using a ratio called phi(1:1.618). Just the same, the way rocks chip and snails' shells develop abide by this ratio too. I'm fairly confident that it can be said that all form, motion, frequency, etc. follows a set of very complex laws/equations.
If we accept the fact that all of these things are mathematical in nature, then logically, it could be said that all of these things forms, motion, future location, etc. could be predicted if the formulas that governed them were known. That said, this has serious implications for us as human-beings.
We seem to believe that they have complete control over their actions, in other words…free will. Without realizing it, we believe that we are the only objects* in the universe that cannot be figured out, or predicted, using math. That is simply illogical. What I am saying is that it is possible that we, as humans, do not have the ability to think on our own or make decisions. It is possible that every movement we make or thought that runs through our mind is simply part of some elaborate mathematical algorithm, an algorithm so advanced that it takes into account all of our past experiences as well as all of the laws of motion, friction, etc. It could be that very equation that led you to read this sentence, and it could be the same equation that makes you go to the bathroom in roughly an hour.
An algorithm that decides our every move is far more logical than to think that we are some exclusive bundles of cells. So, if this is true, then every aspect of our lives, our culture, even the planet can be predicted; it's already written. In fact, who is to say it hasn't happened yet. What I mean by that is, for the sake of argument, let's say that the big-bang and reverse-big-bang theories are fact. According to the laws of physics, the large ball of matter [that explodes to create the universe] would expand and contract in the exact same way over and over again. The same planets would be created in their exact way they existed before the universe collapsed. Every molecule would be put in the exact same space it occupied in the previous big-bang. This would mean that the earth, all of the people in it, even this article, would have been created over and over again, and it will continue to be created for an undetermined, possibly infinite, amount of time.
While I don't believe we can understand the principles that decide our every move, it is only logical to think that they exist. We are not special; we are merely clusters of matter guided by an algorithm we cannot understand…or at least, that makes sense to me. Added 2010-02-19 14:54:05.
@gregponchak : Very nice ideas there but how could you explain spontaneous actions? Does a spontaneous move represent a newly-created algorithm?
Added 2010-06-12 16:17:16. In reply to gregponchak
its like;
everything is electrons, or i guess whatever is smaller than them and whatever is smaller than that, so if we could see how they all move and affect each other, we could see what would happen next. we'll probably (hopefully?) never get there because we would need to take into account the universe and all of its parts and maybe some day we'll discover beyond that, but hey if randomness is just complication (and so far we've found explanations for a lot of things we thought were random right?), then maybe we can.
hopefully not, since that kind of counts out free will i guess, but hey.
Added 2010-06-11 09:43:15.
I've often wondered about them actually. I've heard that they are random and unpredictable. Does that mean that they are unexplainable to us humans, or that they are completely random?
Added 2010-04-24 09:02:44.
maybe our real creator is math, because without math nothing could exist.
as soon as we'll live in this universe 2+2 will be 4, and 2+2 was 4 since the first day our universe existed.
so i think your theory is not so wrong.
we could respond to our atavic questions with an algorithm. like our universe started from one algorithm, before the proto-soup, big magma balls, big bangs, ets.
without maths and phisics no big bang would have happened.
but, we've also to consider that, for example, in the nano dimension phisics laws are different from our macro phisics laws.
I hope you understand my thoughts expressed in my crap english.
Added 2010-02-23 10:36:58.
That said, I think we're fairly predictable.
Added 2010-02-19 22:29:56.
-
Every day we are discovering more and more that the universe, and everything in it, is guided by mathematical algorithms. On a basic level, we all learn simple physics equations to figure out how fast objects will fall, what the friction between two objects is, etc., but it is much more advanced and mysterious than that. For example, the way plants grow can now be predicted (or reverse-engineered) by using a ratio called phi(1:1.618). Just the same, the way rocks chip and snails' shells develop abide by this ratio too. I'm fairly confident that it can be said that all form, motion, frequency, etc. follows a set of very complex laws/equations.
If we accept the fact that all of these things are mathematical in nature, then logically, it could be said that all of these things forms, motion, future location, etc. could be predicted if the formulas that governed them were known. That said, this has serious implications for us as human-beings.
We seem to believe that they have complete control over their actions, in other words…free will. Without realizing it, we believe that we are the only objects* in the universe that cannot be figured out, or predicted, using math. That is simply illogical. What I am saying is that it is possible that we, as humans, do not have the ability to think on our own or make decisions. It is possible that every movement we make or thought that runs through our mind is simply part of some elaborate mathematical algorithm, an algorithm so advanced that it takes into account all of our past experiences as well as all of the laws of motion, friction, etc. It could be that very equation that led you to read this sentence, and it could be the same equation that makes you go to the bathroom in roughly an hour.
An algorithm that decides our every move is far more logical than to think that we are some exclusive bundles of cells. So, if this is true, then every aspect of our lives, our culture, even the planet can be predicted; it's already written. In fact, who is to say it hasn't happened yet. What I mean by that is, for the sake of argument, let's say that the big-bang and reverse-big-bang theories are fact. According to the laws of physics, the large ball of matter [that explodes to create the universe] would expand and contract in the exact same way over and over again. The same planets would be created in their exact way they existed before the universe collapsed. Every molecule would be put in the exact same space it occupied in the previous big-bang. This would mean that the earth, all of the people in it, even this article, would have been created over and over again, and it will continue to be created for an undetermined, possibly infinite, amount of time.
While I don't believe we can understand the principles that decide our every move, it is only logical to think that they exist. We are not special; we are merely clusters of matter guided by an algorithm we cannot understand…or at least, that makes sense to me.
Added 2010-02-19 14:54:05.